Cathryn Mackiewicz (00:00)
I was actually given a really poor prognosis. I was only 36 and I was a single mother of three at the time.
I was not going to die. I just decided I've got three kids I'm responsible for and I'm not leaving them. So I bloody well didn't.
For people with chronic conditions like
I have and being older and postmenopausal I think it's really important that you look after your health, you keep fit, you look after your diet, you keep moving.
Ros Lindsey (00:40)
Welcome to the Wellness Nurse Podcast. I'm your host, Ros Lindsey, and I'm a registered nurse with a Masters of Public Health, and I'm here to help you live a healthier life for longer. Today's episode is all about what it really looks like to live well after a cancer diagnosis and with chronic disease and still travel, work, and enjoy your life.
My guest, Catherine Muscovitch, is a really experienced registered nurse with the Western Victorian Primary Health Network. And she's in her mid-50s. She's a two-time cancer survivor. And she's also living with diabetes, a cardiovascular disease gene, and an autoimmune lung condition. Yet.
she continues to focus on strength, movement, meditation and smart choices so that she can keep doing what she loves while she's at home and when she's away.
In this conversation, you'll hear how Catherine rebuilt her fitness after a poor prognosis in her 30s, the daily habits that help her stay well and the practical strategies that she uses to manage long flights, conferences, sleep, alcohol and the Christmas season without giving up joy.
If you've ever wondered whether wellness is still possible after cancer or living with chronic disease, this episode is for you.
Ros Lindsey (02:22)
So now I'm thrilled to introduce you to our special guest, Cathryn Muscovitch. I met Cathryn at the APNA Nursing Conference in Brisbane, a conference focused on
keeping people well and out of hospital.
When I met you, you'd flown up from Victoria and, airports and long flights, they can be tough on the body and the mind. What are your top tips for navigating these travel challenges and staying healthy during air travel?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (02:52)
have a few health issues that I need to consider when I travel.
don't drink
I keep really well hydrated.
the flight's going to be longer than a couple of hours, I'll
wear
supportive stockings or socks. I like to have some sort of nutritious snacks in my bag and water. If I'm feeling tired or a little bit flat, I'll often do just a 20 minute meditation on the plane.
and just take advantage of that quiet space when you're by yourself
⁓
usually something proteinish, maybe hard boiled egg
Ros Lindsey (03:32)
what is your health essentials packing list? And how do you manage to stick to luggage limits while keeping these essentials? Because honestly, a yoga mat, they're not small. So what else, how do you do it? Have you?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (03:37)
you
know I've got a cheeky yoga mat.
Yeah, so it's basically like a microfiber towel with grip on the back. So I can compact it pretty small.
I have a small bag and I just basically do a capsule wardrobe might pack one nice shirt
and then the rest of it is just sort of comfortable things. You can chuck a blazer over the top and look smart. And I normally just bring a pair of shoes for a conference and my runners. I rarely go over the six kilos.
Ros Lindsey (04:27)
Okay, so you've got the yoga mat, you've got your runners. Are there any other health related items that you are packing in that six or seven kilos?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (04:29)
Yeah. Yeah.
I'll have a t-shirt and some leggings. Yeah, that's about it. I try and book somewhere which has a pool so I can do a nice wind down. ⁓
Ros Lindsey (04:46)
Hmm.
Okay,
So that's the tip. before you even get there, you are booking your hotel that has a pool. and what sort of activities are you doing there and when are you fitting that in at the conference?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (05:02)
Well I try and arrive the day before
normally arrive not too late in the day so I can have a really nice walk, relax, have a swim before
have a nice dinner and have an early night. I like to be really organised and planned so I like to know exactly where I'm going so I don't have to rush in the
I like to
plan my route so that I'm actually walking to the venue and getting bit of exercise on the way. Often as you know with conferences, there's a party night. Yeah, so if I go to the party night, I don't stay too late.
otherwise you don't get anything out of the next day.
Self care is really important to me because I've had cancer twice. And so I do make sure that I'm looking after my wellness when I'm working.
Ros Lindsey (05:52)
see.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (06:00)
When I'm playing, all the time really. So I prioritise meditation at least once a day. If times are particularly stressful or I'm particularly busy, I'll do a second meditation about an hour and a half before I go to bed.
I wake up in the morning, I normally do either a 20 minute Pilates or yoga flow A few times a week
I'll go to an actual reformer class and I do Strong Pilates which is basically you doing your cardio, your weights and your Pilates in that class. that keeps your muscle mass strong because I'm 56 so you don't want to be losing muscle mass.
after menopause and all of those sorts of things.
Ros Lindsey (06:54)
No, that's
right. And I love that you've found strong Pilates that's, incorporating the strength and the cardio. That's fantastic.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (07:02)
Hmm.
terrific program. It's quite difficult. if you haven't done Pilates or yoga before, you wouldn't start with doing strong Pilates. But I've always been a sports person.
Ros Lindsey (07:16)
You've mentioned that you've had two cancer diagnoses before. You've also mentioned that you've done marathons and triathlons. How did you emotionally adapt to changing the types of exercise that you can do? And how did you go about finding other ways
to get in the movement when your body's changing and things out of necessity need to change.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (07:47)
Yeah, it was pretty tough the first time round. I was actually given a really poor prognosis. I was only 36 and I was a single mother of three at the time. So that was pretty tough. I had two years of treatment, radiotherapy and
I couldn't have chemo because my immune system and well basically I was just too ill. And they also couldn't do a complete hysterectomy at the time. I had bladder and uterine cancer but it was the one cancer but it eroded into my bladder. I was actually really lucky because I found out
because I stopped being able to urinate because all my urine was going into my peritoneal cavity through the hole in the side of my bladder. And had that not happened, I mean it might have been years before I knew that I even had cancer. I actually see it as quite a blessing. But I do have to work around having...
rigid bladder and quite a small bladder. So I do have to be aware of having to go and empty my bladder, even though now I no longer have a catheter. Yes, so I was not going to die. I just decided I've got three kids I'm responsible for and I'm not leaving them. So I bloody well didn't.
But that was
the end of my triathlons With the medications, I put on so much weight. My normal weight is around 75 kilos because I'm quite tall and I've got big muscle mass and I've got really strong heavy dense bones. But.
I was up to 112 kilos by the time I finished all my treatment and was in remission. So that was really hard for me to take and I have to say once I was cleared I had a real emotional crash and it took me a bit to come out of that. But I was determined not to be fat.
and to get back to what I've been doing. I didn't get back to triathlons. I just couldn't, didn't have the endurance anymore, but I set myself a new goal with my daughter-in-law, And we set ourselves a goal to do a half marathon.
So we run. Once a week we were running together and then we would run every second day. got to the half marathon and did it.
But yeah, so we still run. At the moment, she's having a bit of a hiatus because she's halfway through her pregnancy. So yeah, we're walking instead together.
Ros Lindsey (10:28)
Mm-mm.
you've actually been able to continue the running ⁓ since that time.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (10:36)
It took a long time
to get my fitness back. I think it took a good three years. Yeah, and then the same, the second time I had cancer, which was, well, it must have been about six years ago now.
Ros Lindsey (10:42)
Mmm.
You're so ambitious with your health goals. Cathryn, I had no idea that you were living with such incredible health challenges. Thank you for your openness in sharing that. This is really a really important piece for Australians that are trying to navigate their health.
There are these significant challenges that interrupt our life and then we go on to live. You're saying that was when you were 36, you're now 56. That's 20 years of navigating life after that cancer diagnosis and that's what we are seeing a lot more of.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (11:22)
You've just got to get back on the horse.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Ros Lindsey (11:39)
in
the world of cancer that people are surviving it and it sounds like it's been an incredible journey for you and you were patient with yourself for that three years following that that time. ⁓
Cathryn Mackiewicz (11:51)
I wasn't. I wasn't patient. I was so
frustrated. You have no idea. Being somebody who has so much energy, always sport oriented. Yeah, I drove myself mad. I drove poor Jim mad.
Ros Lindsey (11:59)
Yeah.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (12:07)
very impatient, but I know I've got to put the work in. I also am diabetic. I have the cardiovascular disease gene. Thanks, Mum and Dad. ⁓ So, you know, I also have an autoimmune disease called sarcoidosis that I've had ever since I was in my 20s.
which affects my lungs. So I've got a lot of scarring on my lungs. But because I've always been really into sport, my initial lung capacity was that of a large man. So now it's appropriate for my size. So even though it's gone down, I still have good lung capacity. I'm aware that that's going to deteriorate over time. For people with chronic conditions like
I have and being older and postmenopausal whether it be through surgical intervention or naturally. I think it's really important that you look after your health, you keep fit, you look after your diet, you keep moving. Movement is
probably more important and keeping all that range of movement and your quads and leg strength is more important than anything else. As we get older our falls risk increases, our muscle mass decreases, particularly postmenopausal. You have to be aware of feeding your body, good nutrition, good protein levels.
and you need to keep that muscle mass. That's more important than worrying about weight really.
Ros Lindsey (13:39)
Mmm.
It really is.
that's what this podcast is all about. It's about
everyday Australians are doing. It's not rocket science. It's
Cathryn Mackiewicz (13:53)
No.
Ros Lindsey (13:54)
things that people can
after
their future health and improve their future health. And you are doing that in spades, Cathryn.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (14:04)
It's picking up the sardines on toast rather than the chocolate biscuits for morning tea. It's simple things.
Ros Lindsey (14:13)
⁓ that is a good swap. that takes
motivation,
but it is the simple things. And sardines on toast, that's a long lost treat really. we used to have that when we were kids growing up. It's so good for you. And they've often got the tins now that have a little bit of, flavour with them. Just watch the sugar content.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (14:20)
Yeah.
yeah, so good for you.
Yeah.
Lemon, chilli and garlic.
Ros Lindsey (14:37)
Exactly, like they're tasty.
that's an amazing swap out for morning or afternoon tea. that you can just keep in the pantry. You can even take it traveling with you a little tin of sardines ⁓
Cathryn Mackiewicz (14:50)
people
might not talk to you though afterwards.
Ros Lindsey (14:53)
Between that and the boiled eggs.
Yes. Conferences mean lots of sitting.
there's no generally no sardines on the buffet.
With all these beautiful delicacies, what's your approach?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (15:07)
It's always hard food-wise at conferences I think. I try and stick to
morning tea. Normally for breakfast I'll have like a savoury breakfast. So I'll have a hard boiled egg or I'll have an omelette with spinach.
carrot or whatever in it or a yogurt with nuts and a few berries. that generally will keep me going and stop me from having any glucose spikes or drops until about 2 o'clock in the afternoon. So if I do that I'm usually pretty good. And then morning tea when I get hit with the buffet I normally go for the fruit.
Ros Lindsey (15:50)
And when you're travelling, do you download a guided meditation?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (15:57)
meditation has been a big part of my life,
So sometimes I'll do a guided meditation that I'll download. Other times I might just do breath work in meditation. Other times I will just clear my mind and sit in that energetic space.
I might do some healing stuff if I've got aches and pains somewhere I might focus and direct my meditation and energy into that sore area. Yeah, so it's just variable. What I need at the time.
Ros Lindsey (16:29)
Mm-hmm. Mm.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (16:34)
think one misconception about meditation is that it has to be long. You can do a really good quality 5 minute meditation. I mean the aim is to do 20 minutes but you can do a really good quality 5 minutes if that's all you've got.
Ros Lindsey (16:49)
Mm. Mm.
Five minutes can be the difference between being dysregulated and regulated
There's often sleep disruption when you're at a conference because, the days start early and they go into the after conference activities. ⁓ What do you do with, different time zones, hectic schedules? What are your tips, for optimising rest?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (17:00)
Yes.
just waking up and making sure, even if I'm getting up significantly early,
maybe 5.30 or 6 in the morning so that I can have that savoury breakfast, that I can do my yoga flow, so I can do my meditation. And starting the day off with that, that changes my energy set for the whole day. You start from a revitalised point and it also gives you some resilience.
because I'm also an introvert.
I find...
Being around a lot of people, quite overwhelming at times. So I just find that starts me off in the right mindset. I know what the expectation is for the day. I know I'm going to be, there'll be times through the day where I'm a little bit overwhelmed. And if that happens, I'll just take a break, do some movement. I might go for a walk during the lunch.
break, go outside into nature and breathe, know that kind of grounding stuff. Afterwards when all the activities are finished for the day and I'm back do something physical.
and peaceful because for me running is like a meditation. I actually can really like really free my mind and just focus on the breath and what's around me so that's a peaceful activity for me but it also is getting rid of that stress energy that you build up for the day.
Ros Lindsey (18:38)
Mm. Mm.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (18:46)
just nurture yourself with choosing a good meal. I don't drink a lot of alcohol. I used to. I probably had a little bit of a problem with alcohol. If I want to be perfectly honest, particularly,
Ros Lindsey (18:49)
That's it.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (19:02)
recovering from the cancer. was indulging a little bit too much, one or two glasses a night. And I've become very mindful that I don't wake up in a good place mentally if I drink. So I keep alcohol to a minimum.
Ros Lindsey (19:04)
Hmm.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (19:22)
easy to slip into the habit of a couple of glasses of wine a night and before long you realise, I'm actually having 14 glasses of wine a week and that's a lot. Yeah.
Ros Lindsey (19:27)
Mm.
Yeah, yeah. And
I was the same when I was working in the public service. Yeah, it was easily a couple of glasses of wine each night. And I don't think they were the standard drinks either. So it's very easy for that to creep up. And alcohol is a really big sleep disruptor. ⁓
Cathryn Mackiewicz (19:44)
Mm.
Of course not, yeah. Big ones. Yeah.
Yeah.
Ros Lindsey (19:58)
it's an easy way to improve your sleep when you are away at the conferences.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (20:02)
Hmm.
Ros Lindsey (20:05)
You know, if
Cathryn Mackiewicz (20:05)
Yeah.
Ros Lindsey (20:05)
you are going to have a glass of wine in those situations, enjoy it and just have one at the time. Stick to the Australian guidelines and that's certainly no more than four in any one sitting. And I would say less for women.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (20:08)
Enjoy it.
Ros Lindsey (20:23)
before we move on to the specific health challenges that we can face with Christmas and the holidays, ⁓ just take a note of the following. I've developed a special guide for you. It's a free guide.
called Obstacles and Detours, the Roadmap Forward. And it's 60 of the most common obstacles that we face when we're trying to make healthy changes in our life. And then 60 strategies. And it looks at nutrition and sleep, movement, avoiding risky substances, improving our social connections. So if you would like that, it's a really handy guide. I stick it on my fridge.
You can find it at roslindsey.com forward slash overcome. So just make a note of that roslindsey.com forward slash overcome, but stay tuned. We're just going to dive into how we can get through the holidays and Christmas in particular and all the challenges that we face at this time of the year.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (21:25)
Thank
Ros Lindsey (21:30)
So Cathryn, with Christmas and Boxing Day feasts coming up, what's your advice for navigating the holiday food comas or avoiding these?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (21:41)
possible.
Christmas is, you know, once a year. And if I'm going to indulge, I will indulge at Christmas time.
it's usually a pretty big party day for us. So normally we'll play bocce or cricket or footy on the oval during the course of the day. There's always a big feast. Everybody brings a platter of something.
Ros Lindsey (21:54)
Mmm.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (22:10)
I will have a hydrolyte pre lunch have couple of hydrolytes before I go to bed. So then there's no no dehydration.
Ros Lindsey (22:23)
Well that's a very good tip if you are going to indulge and if you are going to have some alcohol at Christmas pack some Hydrolyte as well.
It's about finding a balance and it is about enjoying our life and this special time with our loved ones. And I think that's really the big challenge, isn't it? To how to navigate this time well without having a significant impact on our health and without undoing everything.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (22:35)
Yeah.
I
Yeah.
Ros Lindsey (22:59)
that we've done. think it's absolutely to be, it's a time to be enjoyed and celebrated
Cathryn Mackiewicz (23:01)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think too, you know, Christmas is one day. It's not Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, through to New Year's Day that you're indulging, which I think, you know, some people do that. It's just Christmas Day, which is the naughty day, sort of, for me. So the other days are normal.
Ros Lindsey (23:27)
Mm.
our health is a collection of the habits.
that we collect over a very long period of time. And so one day of enjoyment in those beautiful things is to be enjoyed.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (23:39)
Yeah.
Yeah,
I mean, you know, the one thing is that we also are in the one place, Christmas Day, you know, if you have to drive somewhere and if you're going to two or three different people's places, then you have to be sensible, don't you?
Ros Lindsey (24:00)
And
I think for every alcoholic beverage that you have, have two or three non-alcoholic ones. Yeah, it's water. Water or you can make beautiful non-alcoholic cocktails. And it's still, you know, you're enjoying the beautiful day together and ⁓
Cathryn Mackiewicz (24:05)
Yeah.
Yeah.
We usually
make a big non-alcoholic punch which sits there. So we've got two punches, the alcoholic and the non-alcoholic. you know, nice cold water.
Ros Lindsey (24:24)
Gorgeous. Beautiful.
That's it. We hope that the kids, the kids
can determine the difference, hopefully.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (24:37)
Well all of the kids are adults except for Sophie. So she's the only one that's little-y. All of our children, the oldest is 32 and the youngest is 24. And I have to say they're pretty sensible.
Ros Lindsey (24:45)
⁓ gosh, boy.
And
And what about, you know, the extra social interactions that we have at this time of the year and navigating those?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (25:02)
work Christmas parties With my work we actually have a day, like an all day.
there's no alcohol, but there is a lot of food and lots of fun and games and things like that. that's a really good day, but it is exhausting.
say no to a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah.
Ros Lindsey (25:21)
Okay and how
do you say no?
Cathryn Mackiewicz (25:25)
I
just say no. This probably sounds really, really rude but...
Ros Lindsey (25:27)
Yeah, you don't have to justify it. It's just a no. Okay.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (25:41)
My time is valuable. I like to spend my time with people I value. And during the holiday season, you get a lot of invitations from acquaintances or people that you don't know that well. And honestly, I'm really not interested in spending my time.
with people that you only hear from every now and again. I would rather spend my time with the people that I value and who value me and invest in those relationships. So I will say yes to those ones, but I will say no to the others.
you know, I think when you get to my age, you don't have to please people anymore. You know, I'm not at the stage of my life where I'm career building and you have have the, you know, the dinner parties and all of that. Can I say BS? I'm at the stage of my life where
Ros Lindsey (26:38)
Mm.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (26:41)
I know who I am, I'm comforting in who I am. I have my close-knit group of friends who I've had for 40 plus years. I have my close family. And yeah, that's where I invest my time.
Ros Lindsey (26:59)
additional stresses at this time of year with extra financial costs and sometimes that in itself
stress and affects our mental health and our physical health as well.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (27:09)
Absolutely.
It's really hard. think families are doing it really tough. We did it tough. We were'nt well off, six kids is a lot. We would set a very tight budget of what we were going to spend on each kid. And
Spoiling was for birthdays. Christmas was, you know, couple of fun things, but a token, you know. So that's how we did it. We also would put a little bit of money aside into a savings bank account once a week or once a fortnight.
you know, sometimes it was tough to find $50 to put into the Christmas fund, you know, we didn't have it. But if we didn't have the full amount, would put what we had. And yeah, that's how we navigated it. But it was, it was tough. you know, sometimes you had to resort to Mr. Credit Card, you know. Yeah.
And I think the other thing too that's really hard about this time of year and Christmas time of year is it's also the time of year where you get all your annual insurance stuff. You get all those big bills so you get the, you know, the house and contents and the rates and registration. All of those things tend to come in this time of year as well.
Ros Lindsey (28:25)
Hmm.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (28:37)
What we did was we did like partial payments and staggered those major yearly annual bills into each quarter. There would be one of them rather than all of them at once and that actually helps a lot.
Ros Lindsey (28:48)
Hmm.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (28:52)
That actually was probably the biggest thing that made a difference for us is not being hit with all of those bills just after Christmas.
Ros Lindsey (29:01)
Cathryn, thank you so much for all your honesty in sharing your story today. I'm so grateful. I think a lot of Australians will really identify with your story. It's navigating the health challenges and it's a very real story.
that you've given us today. So that's what health is like. It's we focus on our health in the midst of all of these things that are going on in our life and all the other things that we just, when we're out of routine and that's what doing it well is and having the grace to
Cathryn Mackiewicz (29:40)
⁓ yes.
Ros Lindsey (29:40)
to ride with that and afford ourselves self-compassion and a time to indulge a little bit at these special times of the year. So thank you so much for all that you've shared.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (29:55)
You're welcome
Ros Lindsey (29:57)
Thank you. a disclaimer here, what we've discussed today, it's all very general information and for educational purposes. And especially in the context of our discussion with alcohol, we would recommend that you would seek individual medical advice for your health, So thank you for listening.
to the Wellness Nurse Podcast. if you found this helpful, please subscribe, share it with your loved ones and look forward to seeing you again. Thank you.
Cathryn Mackiewicz (30:27)
Thank
